The Powder Toy

Please fix Special element reactivity [BUG]

  • psharpep     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    The Reactivity of Special Elements

    The past few versions have brought an issue into the spotlight that makes a myriad of simulations impossible or very difficult to create. This has been much more noticeable since the introduction of fusion, though it has been a problem for a while now.

    Of course, what I'm talking about is the fact that special elements (particularly CLNEs, VOID, PRTI, PRTO, VENT, VACU, WHOL, and BHOL) react with and are destroyed by many elements (particularly SING and DEST). I'll outline a few reasons why you should fix this bug. 

    Usability
    In the status quo, you really can't manipulate SING and DEST unless you do it manually. Simply being able to actually use these elements would be SO useful. Reactors, guns, and fusion simulators are just a few of the things off the top of my head. It also renders the entire fusion mechanism (which is brilliant, I might add) pretty much useless, because you can't control the SING that occurs as a usually inevitable final decay product of fusion reactions (HYGN --> NBLE --> CO2 --> SING).

    Feasibility
    I'm not an extremely experienced programmer, but anyone can tell from empirics that having an element not react with SING and DEST is possible: look at DMND. It's obvious that reactivity is influenced by both reactants, so fixing this problem wouldn't involve an entire overhaul of the SING and DEST code. Functionality is easily preserved.

    No Broken Saves
    As the 8000th or so user of TPT, I've been around a while. I tend to sort by date, so I've seen a whole lot of posts. I've never seen any post that depends on SING or DEST destroying a Special element to work. Now that I think about it, I haven't really seen that many people use SING or DEST at all, and that all goes back to usability. TPT has two more or less wasted elements, whose purpose can't be utilized because of an an easy-to-fix bug.

    Please fix this issue, as it would enable not only the use of two TPT elements, but the full use of the fusion process, and the use of Special elements in conjunction with these two extremely potent substances.

    -psharpep
  • Catelite     2nd Apr 2012 Former Staff 0 Permalink
    ...You completely lost me. XD Could you use laymen's terms please?


    ...Oh. Ehh. o_< Fusion is popular, a way to make it more usable might be added eventually.
  • therocketeer     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    @Catelite (View Post)
    laymen's terms:
    DEST and SING destroy clone. It would be nice if they didn't do that.
  • Minishooz     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    Well we have an element called breakable clone which is supposed to be destroyable, and yet clone is destroyed by SING, DEST and I think WARP and AMTR too. Why have clone destroyable when theres a breakable clone which is supposd to be destroyable. But I guess you can use molten sing and ect...
  • circovik     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    Now people are claiming their bombs as the best, the most destructive.... The only reason is because they are fusion bombs and the sing they produce destroys almost everything.
  • peterpacz1     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    yes, i do agree!
  • jacob1     2nd Apr 2012 Developer 0 Permalink
    It actually is possible to control fusion, just don't heat up the original hydrogen all the way and no SING is produced. A fourth fusion step might be added though, the oxygen produced by CO2 fusion will fuse into BRMT (IRON), and only that step will produce SING. This step also will only happen when there is a lot of Newtonian gravity, so it can be easily disabled.
    You can also use walls to control things, they can't be destroyed.

    I do agree with you though, I think all those elements should be made indestructible (except for maybe portals), because those are already destructive elements that will destroy everything anyway. Maybe an indestructible property could be added, that could be changed to make things destroyable or not depending on what it was.
  • BoredInSchool     2nd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    @psharpep: I am the suggestor of fusion, and I would like you to know that jacob1(he is the coder) and I have been working on a fourth step to fusion that will solve the SING problem: OXYG fusion. In this upgrade, the fusion chain will be extended:           HYGN----->NBLE----->CO2----->OXYG. CO2 will no longer produce lots of SING, instead it will produce only very short lived micro-singularities(SING with life 1-5) like those produced in particle colliders. OXYG fusion will be the major SING producer, but OXYG needs a newtonian gravity well to begin fusing. This is to make sure that CO2 fusion doesn't jump straight to OXYG fusion(unless you want it to), which should help stabilize reactors.


    EDIT: looks like jacob1 posted while I was writing my post XD.
  • psharpep     3rd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    @BoredInSchool (View Post)

    Fantastic! I'm loving the new fusion idea, but you're right, SING can be a problem. I like the micro-singularities idea as well. Here's a suggestion, though:

    First I'll outline how TPT fusion works right now, very roughly:

    • HYGN + Heat/Pressure --> NBLE + More Heat/Pressure
    • NBLE + Heat/Pressure --> CO2 + More Heat/Pressure
    • CO2 + Heat/Pressure --> Nothing + More Heat, Less Pressure
    Can we fix the last step? The SING that CO2 fusion releases screws up the pressure completely. In fact, it takes it to about -150 usually. This makes a fusion reactor or a fusion rocket near-impossible, since you would have to automatically make sure that none of the CO2 reaches 9500.01 C and 200 pressure.

    I know your micro-singularity idea will probably fix it, but I just wanted to make you guys aware of the problem before the next version.

    Thanks,

    -psharpep
  • coryman     3rd Apr 2012 Member 0 Permalink
    I completely agree about some elements being out-of-control, but DEST and SING aren't useless; they're fun for bombing vehicles and buildings.
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