Revert PSTN change

  • 12Me21
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 1 Permalink

    PSTN no longer works if another element is layered above it. This will break hundreds of saves.

    Edited once by 12Me21. Last: 22nd Oct 2015
  • Sandwichlizard
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 2 Permalink

    Oh well.  we were told many times not to count on layering working forever.  I love the new PSTN change and I have at least a dozen save to fix of my own.  It is what it is.

  • 12Me21
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 0 Permalink

    It's fine if a change breaks some saves, but only if the change has more good effects than bad.

     

    The PSTN changes doesn't seem to do anything good, as far as I know. It's just another limitation, like, for example, the 5 particle layering limit (unless you use EHOLE, which can cause problems).

    Edited once by 12Me21. Last: 22nd Oct 2015
  • jacob1
    22nd Oct 2015 Developer 1 Permalink
    @12Me21 (View Post)
    Did you know that you can use PSTN's .temp to do the exact same thing? And it is more customizeable, it adds up the temperature of all the PSTN in a line, you can even set negative .temp and do other fancy things by sparking the PSTN at different points.
  • 12Me21
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 0 Permalink

    OH!

    where was this announced? Is there a tutorial/explanation anywhere?

     

    Anyway, the main problem I have is that PSTN doesn't work when other stuff is layered on top of it, like

     

    "Pure" layered piston still works.

    Edited 2 times by 12Me21. Last: 22nd Oct 2015
  • jacob1
    22nd Oct 2015 Developer 0 Permalink
    It was announced in the beta back in march: https://powdertoy.co.uk/Discussions/Thread/View.html?Thread=17105&PageNum=47#Message=283539
    There is a link to that changelog on the TPT snapshot page.

    There really is no tutorial. I guess try and figure out how to do what you need to do with just the temperature thing.

    I might consider undoing the change which broke the original stacking method, but the new temperature way is definitely better.
  • 12Me21
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 0 Permalink

    @jacob1 (View Post)

     The original stacking method still works:

     

    The only thing that broke was PSTN layered under other elements.

  • mecha-man
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 0 Permalink

    Didn't this happen a long time ago? I'm pretty sure I saw this and fixed my saves so they worked. I do agree that it is a useless limitation though.

    It makes you require a PSTN on the top layer in order for it to work.

  • 12Me21
    22nd Oct 2015 Member 0 Permalink

    I never noticed it until now, because it is rare for people to layer PSTN under stuff.

  • jacksonmj
    22nd Oct 2015 Developer 1 Permalink

    This is exactly why I hate layering.

     

    https://github.com/simtr/The-Powder-Toy/commit/d0cf82de03b6d33fea4e5e5c0418625fc78d46e8

     

    As well as making functionality additions difficult, it also means I can't do nice things like move PSTN triggering to the SPRK update function (which would allow removal of the PSTN update function and hence provide a small speed increase).

     

    This is one of the reasons why I don't do as much work on the official version of TPT as I used to... All the layering and subframe stuff means some saves rely very heavily on the exact details of how TPT works, so it's much more difficult nowadays to make any useful changes without breaking something.

     

    I tell people "don't do X, it may break", then someone goes and does X anyway, and complains when X breaks. :(

    Edited once by jacksonmj. Last: 22nd Oct 2015